Anne Hathaway Left Catholicism After Brother Came Out
By: Gay.com
2.8.2010
Anne Hathaway recently revealed to GQ magazine that after her brother Michael came out as gay to the family they chose to leave their faith.
Though Hathaway was raised Catholic in her tight family back in New Jersey, "the whole family converted to Episcopalianism after my elder brother [Michael] came out,” she said. “Why should I support an organization that has a limited view of my beloved brother?"
She says as a result, her own faith is currently in question. The Devil Wears Prada starlet says she describes herself as “nothing [no denomination]. F**k it, I'm forming. I'm a work in progress."
TELL US: What is your relationship with faith? Did it change after you came out?
Good for you Anne!! I have instantly become a BIG fan! Your comments in your speech were right on! Congrats to you for your honesty and candor - and of course for your award!
After I came to accept my homosexuality, I looked for a spiritual home that would affirm my whole self. I found one in the Unity movement. I started going to a little church down the street from me whose minister happened to be gay. It didn't hurt that he was also cute, but the Unity message of one God who loves us as we are has kept me going back long after he moved on. This isn't the message I grew up with, but it made more sense to me and I finally felt totally at home in a church.
My grandfather was a devout Catholic, and while I have always respected lay Catholics and some priests I have known, I cannot do the same for their church hierarchy and much of its teachings. Their own members don't always buy what the church is selling, yet they are still fearful of going to hell if they fall afoul of church teaching in some way. Pope Benedict often spews some sort of hateful garbage even as he embraces many social justice causes. We have many recovering Catholics in our church because they just can't live any longer with the fear, guilt, and shame that their church instilled in them and can't find a way to release all that and stay true to their church.
Catholicism, like most religions, is a big sect, whose objective is to control people, keep them ignorant and, of course, make money. Sadly, people believe the pope is God's representative on earth (what a joke), while he and his cardinals are laughing their asses off in the Vatican... why shouldn't they, they have millions of people around the world following their rules, their stupid, archaic rules which promote hate and intolerance. People need to wake up and see what religion really is: a sham.
It is truly sad that anyone would give away any of themselves to ANY religion. It is like selling ones sould and following what some one else has told them how to think and what to do and not what to do. No one it seems to me ever asks the question about the source of all this nonsence. It is always said that it is said here and there in this book or this bible or so and so said it. How about thinking for yourself and reach the source of your spirituality through your own thinking and wondering. It is easier it seems to let yourself be led by something else and not think on your own. It must be fear of the unknown that people cling to "something". I am 73 years old and throughout my life have searched most of the popular religions and have not found a thing- Many years ago I had stopped searching through books and what others have said and found and tried to tell me what and how to think. I have found it better to live each day as fully as I can and question EVERYTHING. To me this is the only way to live and to be true to myself. Thank you Ann Hathaway for quitting the catholic church. I don't know that anyother church will do you much good. How about looking into yourself for the answers.? Might be worth a try!
This is my take on the subject....God in the beginning condemend homosexuality as it is so explicitly said in the Old Testment...During the Roman occupation of the world when Rome was the capital even the Roman Emps had servant boys they would have sex with...and so would future occupations and takeovers...now when Jesus came in human form to walk upon the earth he didnt judge people...never spoke against homosexuality...he spoke on how to love one another but didnt explain how that love should be...he spoke on killing and theivery and he even carried a theif into Heaven with him when he was crucified...believe me when i say you will not be judged for your good works on this earth...its how you love one another,treat one another,help out one another, and etc...you will be judge for whats truly in your heart and how you believe...he said it was so and i believe it...
...Dont you think if homosexuality was such a big deal back then that Jesus would have surely spoke on it...he knew it was going on...so why didnt he....and dont anyone come up and say yeah he did...wasnt him...it was the other men who wrote the books. Btw...as for these people who constantly change what they want to change in the Bible ..cause it suits them to do so...be careful what you do...last 2 verses maybe 3 in the last chapter in Revelations...Points out what will happen to them in the long run, very vividly...go read it....
I believe in all my heart,body.and soul, in God...i came from a very religious family, mind you a loving family as well...we are from that old time religion, most of you should know what i mean..i am gay and i remain true to who and what i am...i dont know if i will go to Heaven but im supported by the Bible that there is a good chance i will...i am a good person and if God denounces for being gay,ill have to live with it and see Satan instead of God...but i dont think that will happen...God has given me everything i have asked for...hes given me life, my partner for 35 years, knowledge,wisdom, intelligence,etc...i couldnt have made it in this life without God in mine...so yes i trust no man but God..for he is the center of the universe at least to me...so to answer the age old question...yes i do believe in God...i believe in prayer...and yes i do believe in miracles...
As someone who is openly gay and Openly jewish, i have to say that my relationship with MY faith has changed over the years, and that's a good thing. to paraphrase from Moses mendohlsohnn, the faith we have is not the same way our parents looked at faith, is not the same way our grandparents or their parents looked at it. It EVOLVES over time.
I don't see how the Church can condemn gays when so many priests are guilty of abusing young alter boys. I am a "fallen away Catholic" (a term used by my 6th grade teacher Sister St. Ann) mainly because I don't feel comfortable associating with the "Goodly and Godly" I still believe what I was taught during my formative years, but I choose to practice my faith alone and not put up with the hypocrites who atten Mass every Sunday and profess to be better I am because they are married and have children they don't seem to be able to afford judging from the begging letters I get from my Catholic Charities asking for help for the poor families who can't make ends meet. Well, I didn't breed up a bunch of brats so I don't feel obligated.
I come from an Evangelical background and they believe we (homosexuals) are demon-possessed and going to hell. So once I came out...actually, as soon as I left home 23 years ago, I was atheist. My father is an Evangelical minister, but he and his third wife (and second wife) accept MY family. My mother, now just a run-of-the-mill protestant, does not let me into her house. I am still a bit hostile toward Christianity and an atheist due to my experiences growing up in the church and their hatred toward others.
I'm a Presbyterian and our church government is still out on gays. I grew up with the son of a Presbyterian minister and have several Presbyterian ministers among my ancestors. My brother is an ordained Presbyterian. My sister and her husband are members of a DC church. They have the Gay Men's Chorus of Wasthington practice at their church. I know gay people will never be fully accepted at church though Episcopalians seem to, but with people leaving because of it. I agree with everything else about my church and I have many friends in my church who know that I'm gay. They include me in a lot of things like parties, dinners, etc., They really care about me. There's always going to be people who think being gay is a choice and that we have an agenda, but there a lot of good people in church. I know that I didn't have the choice to be gay and to not act on it is ridiculous. You can't choose who you are attracted to. We can't make straight people gay anymore than straight people can make gays straight. There are a lot of sinners in the Bible and Sodom and Gomorrah is the raping of men and not a relationship. In the new testament Paul makes reference to it, but Jesus never said anthing about it that I know of. I know a lot of people use this argument so this is nothing new. It's always going to be this with religion because people think that being gay is a choice. I wish they would watch or read Prayers for Bobby and maybe that would change their minds. I go to church for my needs and support. I sing in the choir. I don't think it's anyone's business who I have sex with. I know that God loves meno matter what. There is plenty of sin in the Bible including "eating shellfish" which of course makes no sense.The Bible was written by men influenced by God, but look at all the people God used Paul included. Paul killed a lot of people until God found him. Men had more than one wife and have concubines in the Bible, so to question the Bible makes plenty of sense to me. I do think they do avoid showing the gay story lines in movies because it will offend some straight people. I also agree, let some gays have the gay roles. I loved Broke Back Mountain but the actors were assumed straight. Likewise Valentine's Day and other mainstream Hollywood movies. I remember going to see The Object of My Affection or some other gay oriented movie long time ago and there was kissing or soemthing in the movie. The straight people yelled, "Ooh, gross." I don't want to get my head bashed in so I just sit in silence. We have a lot to go.
Homophobia is not a religious tenet, it isn't a moral position, it isn't a political position. Homophobia is abuse! It's violence against men, women, and mostly...children. It maims, it mutilates, it kills. Homophobes have blood on their hands. People are not born homophobic. It is something they learn, it's a choice, it's something phobes can do something about. As one of the greatest promulgators of this violence, the Catholic church not only has some heavy dues to pay but they've demonstrated their total moral bankruptcy and utter lack of meaningful spirituality. The only way I would enter the door of a Catholic church would be to burn the mother fucker down!
I used to attend church regularly, I even sang in the church choir. However when I came out as Gay I was lead to Wicca and also came out of the Broom closet as a Witch. I didn't fully realize at the time how against homosexuality the church was until a few years had past and realized that I was lead to Wicca at that time for a reason. I started to see more and more how hateful the church was and how loving and accepting the Pagan community was. The church continued to preach Gay is against nature, "God hates F*gs" and such nonsense, which my mother bought into causing us to part ways for good. While Wicca continued to show that Gay is natural and a way for the world to balance itself, for if everyone was Hetero, the world would not be able to support humans for over population. That nature needs to establish balance and homosexuality is key to that balance. So as I grew spiritually I saw the church turn its back more and more, and the nature based Pagan community opened its arms more and more. I am now Proud to say I am a Gay Wiccan Priest, and the Divine Spirits, the Goddess and God created me and Love me as I am. So Mote it be.
I used to feel more strongly than I do now about Churches's stances on homosexuality. Oh, it still bothers me and I think they should all change.
But, just as Rupert Everett famously said about himself, I too have now become too old to be gay. Even the gay world doesn't accept me, as I'm just over 50. (Just imagine!) So, why should I fight on behalf of the gay movement?
Growing up in the 70's and 80's with parents who, instead of instilling in me a specific belief in God, chose to not lead me in any way religiously/spiritually so that I could make my own decisions, I have been searching most of my adult life for what it is I believe and what I'm supposed to believe according to the Christian churches I attended. When I became a mother of a son 16 yrs ago, I did not want him growing up with the same feeling of loss and the fear of death as I have. I put him in a private, Christian-based preschool and he remained at that school through 6th grade. I knew in my mind that this particular church/school had very strong feelings against homosexuality. Being a bisexual mom in a relationship with a woman for 8 yrs, I continued to go to church services and send my son to school there because I wanted so badly to have a faith of some kind to follow. My partner being a devout Catholic, was not thrilled that I was going to that Christian church but she was happy that I was at least trying to figure out my beliefs and start some kind of a relationship with God. My son would come home and tell us things that would be said in his classrooms that were completely ethically wrong to be saying to children without their parents' knowledge regarding homosexuality but again, I kept tolerating it by continuing to attend their services and at least trying to get something personal out of their sermons. The last straw came at the end of my son's school year when he asked to be excused because he was upset about something. (Even at such a young age, my son knew when it was "wise" to lie about the real reasons for things when it came to hiding the real status of my relationship with his "aunt".) He was allowed to go to the office and sit with the principal who finally got it out of my son that he was upset because his "aunt" was sick. The principal (and another teacher) began to go into what the Bible says about homosexuality and told my 11-yr old son that if his mom did not change her ways, she is going to Hell. I can't put into words how upset I was. Needless to say, that was his last year there. By the way, that school knows they were wrong to do what they did because that day, I got an email from the teacher offering me $400! (That added insult to injury.) My son and I to this day have our own private battles going on with religion. I blame that church and their "Christian" values on how it has destroyed my son's faith.
As a member of a group of disenfranchised Catholics, I read with great interest your coverage of Anne Hathaway's decesion to leave the Church. I know intimatley the struggle of that decision.
As a former Roman Catholic Religious and a delayed vocation (I was an Assistant Professor of mental health sciences for about 12 years before I entered the seminary). I found it necessary for my own mental health and my soul to leave the Roman Church. Deeply convinced of my call to priesthood, I searched for an alternative way to serve God. I found that way in the Independent Catholic movement, especially in the American National Catholic Church (ANCC Americannationalcatholicchurch.org)
The Catholic Apostolic movement began in Brazil under Bishop Charles Duarte-Costa, in response to Rome’s expulsion of him for his out spoken criticism of the Vatican’s policy of granting visas to members of the Nazi party. Since coming to the US in 1949 many Independent Catholics, with the ANCC has joined the struggle to maintain a viable option for Catholics who cannot reconcile the essential teachings of Christ’s all embracing love with the sometimes exclusionary views of the Vatican.
I wanted folks to know that Rome does not speak for all Catholics and You may wish to explore this vibrant expression of Catholicism in the Independent movement. My own parish, St. Francis of Assisi (stfrancisnj.org) is a place where all are encouraged to be who God called them to be.
I am encouraged by signs of the Holy Spirit in the ongoing phenomenon of our differentiation of consciousness described by the noted theologian, Bernard Lonergan. He suggests that whatever is true and authentic doctrine for a faith community, that these elements will always find their expression in each subsequent faith community, despite any type of oppression. I think that ANCC, in someway, is a living expression of God’s promise to not leave us orphans.
While I can understand Dave's frustration with Catholicism I take issue with the misinformation he posted above. Annulments do not say that persons were not married. Annulments say that something was missing in the marriage so that it was not a "Sacrament". Maturity; Intention to Fidelity; Intention to Permanence; Openness to Sexual Love; Psychic Disorder; All these can undermine a marriage so that from the beginning the partners cannot create a marriage "In the Lord. Of course these have to be proven.
The Partners probably did not realize that the marriage was
neutralized by such qualities. Children may have been produced since generation is not subject to human choice only intercourse is.
The fact that some churches have learned from science that homosexual orientation is determined somehow before personal choice has allowed them to change their previous policies about gays and lesbians. That is because truth ultimately lines up with other truth. Darwinian Evolution now can be accorded with Divine Creation of the Universe. Big change.
Perhaps Churches have delayed too long in understanding scientific teaching but science itself changes frequently.
I can see not standing on the ice until the lake is well frozen.
We all have some mental grid(myth) by which we make some sense out of our lives if we take time to ponder. I guess Jesus has that pull on many of us so deeply that even if we are out of step with church authorities we still are drawn to the Gospel. I find it comforting that while I am looking for God
God is looking for me.
I knew I was gay at 7. I figured that since I wasn't going to fit in anyway, I might as well think for myself.
I quickly became disenchanted with my parents faith (Catholicism)and by fourth grade was asking some very pointed questions. As a woman I found it impossible to reconcile any sort of spirituality with the idea that physical anatomy dictated who could serve in the priesthood. My issues didn't end there. I questioned Mary's virginity in religion class and got very tired of hearing over and over that everything that could not possibly be proven was "an article of faith". Childbirth seemed like an awful thing to endure without at least one orgasm preceding it. I later found much more acceptance in the work of Edgar Cayce and studied Buddhism and astrology. At this point I'm pretty sure we were bred by space aliens.
How can it be real when a religious organization runs itself the way the catholic church does. (and all religions are the same) It's based on being a hypocrite. Marriage is between a man and a woman they say so gays can't get married. You can't get divorced but there were too many straight people getting divorced so they had to change the rules for the hypocrites so now they can get divorced and even remarried in the church. Ted Kennedy not only got divorced from Joan but the marriage was annulled. Annulled is when the marriage is not consumated and you decide you don't want to be married anymore. You know what not consumated means? How many kids did he have? He had money so maybe he bought his sins back from god. Believe it or not, that's how they built the vatican, the rules used to be that you could give money to the church to pay for your sins. They had enough sinners to build the vatacan with sin money. Why they stopped that, I don't know? Your supposed to go to church on Sunday but people wanted to go on Saturday so, yea, lets change gods word again so we can make it more convienient for us. There's so many things. It's like people buying a game and saying it's too hard, lets change this rule, I know Dave didn't mean that, I know he didn't. It's all made up. Sorry people. How can someone do that, change the rules because they say they know someone didn't mean what they said. There's god and the devil. If you say god made me do it, your wonderful but if you say the devil made me do it, your crazy. It's all made up to benifit emotional cripples that need magic to carry them because they're too weak to do it by themselves. They could say that gays can now get married but even then it's that they just made up this new rule. Made up. I see gay flags on churches all the time now, letting people know they accept gays there. At one time gays weren't accepted but now they are. They made it up that now they're accepted. Poof. Just like they made it up gays weren't accepted. Why would any gay person or straight person want to be a part of that? It's all made up. Have fun pulling the wool over your own eyes people, I'm not playing anymore.
Comments
Good for you Anne!! I have instantly become a BIG fan! Your comments in your speech were right on! Congrats to you for your honesty and candor - and of course for your award!
what is the difference between the church and a sewage treatment plant?
Answer:
One creates sewage, the other gets rid of it.
After I came to accept my homosexuality, I looked for a spiritual home that would affirm my whole self. I found one in the Unity movement. I started going to a little church down the street from me whose minister happened to be gay. It didn't hurt that he was also cute, but the Unity message of one God who loves us as we are has kept me going back long after he moved on. This isn't the message I grew up with, but it made more sense to me and I finally felt totally at home in a church.
My grandfather was a devout Catholic, and while I have always respected lay Catholics and some priests I have known, I cannot do the same for their church hierarchy and much of its teachings. Their own members don't always buy what the church is selling, yet they are still fearful of going to hell if they fall afoul of church teaching in some way. Pope Benedict often spews some sort of hateful garbage even as he embraces many social justice causes. We have many recovering Catholics in our church because they just can't live any longer with the fear, guilt, and shame that their church instilled in them and can't find a way to release all that and stay true to their church.
Catholicism, like most religions, is a big sect, whose objective is to control people, keep them ignorant and, of course, make money. Sadly, people believe the pope is God's representative on earth (what a joke), while he and his cardinals are laughing their asses off in the Vatican... why shouldn't they, they have millions of people around the world following their rules, their stupid, archaic rules which promote hate and intolerance. People need to wake up and see what religion really is: a sham.
It is truly sad that anyone would give away any of themselves to ANY religion. It is like selling ones sould and following what some one else has told them how to think and what to do and not what to do. No one it seems to me ever asks the question about the source of all this nonsence. It is always said that it is said here and there in this book or this bible or so and so said it. How about thinking for yourself and reach the source of your spirituality through your own thinking and wondering. It is easier it seems to let yourself be led by something else and not think on your own. It must be fear of the unknown that people cling to "something". I am 73 years old and throughout my life have searched most of the popular religions and have not found a thing- Many years ago I had stopped searching through books and what others have said and found and tried to tell me what and how to think. I have found it better to live each day as fully as I can and question EVERYTHING. To me this is the only way to live and to be true to myself. Thank you Ann Hathaway for quitting the catholic church. I don't know that anyother church will do you much good. How about looking into yourself for the answers.? Might be worth a try!
This is my take on the subject....God in the beginning condemend homosexuality as it is so explicitly said in the Old Testment...During the Roman occupation of the world when Rome was the capital even the Roman Emps had servant boys they would have sex with...and so would future occupations and takeovers...now when Jesus came in human form to walk upon the earth he didnt judge people...never spoke against homosexuality...he spoke on how to love one another but didnt explain how that love should be...he spoke on killing and theivery and he even carried a theif into Heaven with him when he was crucified...believe me when i say you will not be judged for your good works on this earth...its how you love one another,treat one another,help out one another, and etc...you will be judge for whats truly in your heart and how you believe...he said it was so and i believe it...
...Dont you think if homosexuality was such a big deal back then that Jesus would have surely spoke on it...he knew it was going on...so why didnt he....and dont anyone come up and say yeah he did...wasnt him...it was the other men who wrote the books. Btw...as for these people who constantly change what they want to change in the Bible ..cause it suits them to do so...be careful what you do...last 2 verses maybe 3 in the last chapter in Revelations...Points out what will happen to them in the long run, very vividly...go read it....
I believe in all my heart,body.and soul, in God...i came from a very religious family, mind you a loving family as well...we are from that old time religion, most of you should know what i mean..i am gay and i remain true to who and what i am...i dont know if i will go to Heaven but im supported by the Bible that there is a good chance i will...i am a good person and if God denounces for being gay,ill have to live with it and see Satan instead of God...but i dont think that will happen...God has given me everything i have asked for...hes given me life, my partner for 35 years, knowledge,wisdom, intelligence,etc...i couldnt have made it in this life without God in mine...so yes i trust no man but God..for he is the center of the universe at least to me...so to answer the age old question...yes i do believe in God...i believe in prayer...and yes i do believe in miracles...
As someone who is openly gay and Openly jewish, i have to say that my relationship with MY faith has changed over the years, and that's a good thing. to paraphrase from Moses mendohlsohnn, the faith we have is not the same way our parents looked at faith, is not the same way our grandparents or their parents looked at it. It EVOLVES over time.
I don't see how the Church can condemn gays when so many priests are guilty of abusing young alter boys. I am a "fallen away Catholic" (a term used by my 6th grade teacher Sister St. Ann) mainly because I don't feel comfortable associating with the "Goodly and Godly" I still believe what I was taught during my formative years, but I choose to practice my faith alone and not put up with the hypocrites who atten Mass every Sunday and profess to be better I am because they are married and have children they don't seem to be able to afford judging from the begging letters I get from my Catholic Charities asking for help for the poor families who can't make ends meet. Well, I didn't breed up a bunch of brats so I don't feel obligated.
I come from an Evangelical background and they believe we (homosexuals) are demon-possessed and going to hell. So once I came out...actually, as soon as I left home 23 years ago, I was atheist. My father is an Evangelical minister, but he and his third wife (and second wife) accept MY family. My mother, now just a run-of-the-mill protestant, does not let me into her house. I am still a bit hostile toward Christianity and an atheist due to my experiences growing up in the church and their hatred toward others.
I'm a Presbyterian and our church government is still out on gays. I grew up with the son of a Presbyterian minister and have several Presbyterian ministers among my ancestors. My brother is an ordained Presbyterian. My sister and her husband are members of a DC church. They have the Gay Men's Chorus of Wasthington practice at their church. I know gay people will never be fully accepted at church though Episcopalians seem to, but with people leaving because of it. I agree with everything else about my church and I have many friends in my church who know that I'm gay. They include me in a lot of things like parties, dinners, etc., They really care about me. There's always going to be people who think being gay is a choice and that we have an agenda, but there a lot of good people in church. I know that I didn't have the choice to be gay and to not act on it is ridiculous. You can't choose who you are attracted to. We can't make straight people gay anymore than straight people can make gays straight. There are a lot of sinners in the Bible and Sodom and Gomorrah is the raping of men and not a relationship. In the new testament Paul makes reference to it, but Jesus never said anthing about it that I know of. I know a lot of people use this argument so this is nothing new. It's always going to be this with religion because people think that being gay is a choice. I wish they would watch or read Prayers for Bobby and maybe that would change their minds. I go to church for my needs and support. I sing in the choir. I don't think it's anyone's business who I have sex with. I know that God loves meno matter what. There is plenty of sin in the Bible including "eating shellfish" which of course makes no sense.The Bible was written by men influenced by God, but look at all the people God used Paul included. Paul killed a lot of people until God found him. Men had more than one wife and have concubines in the Bible, so to question the Bible makes plenty of sense to me. I do think they do avoid showing the gay story lines in movies because it will offend some straight people. I also agree, let some gays have the gay roles. I loved Broke Back Mountain but the actors were assumed straight. Likewise Valentine's Day and other mainstream Hollywood movies. I remember going to see The Object of My Affection or some other gay oriented movie long time ago and there was kissing or soemthing in the movie. The straight people yelled, "Ooh, gross." I don't want to get my head bashed in so I just sit in silence. We have a lot to go.
Definitely not All religions within the Christian group are the same, Best wishes to all the Family, especially Michael and his parents!
Love, John
Homophobia is not a religious tenet, it isn't a moral position, it isn't a political position. Homophobia is abuse! It's violence against men, women, and mostly...children. It maims, it mutilates, it kills. Homophobes have blood on their hands. People are not born homophobic. It is something they learn, it's a choice, it's something phobes can do something about. As one of the greatest promulgators of this violence, the Catholic church not only has some heavy dues to pay but they've demonstrated their total moral bankruptcy and utter lack of meaningful spirituality. The only way I would enter the door of a Catholic church would be to burn the mother fucker down!
Organized religion sucks. End of story.
I used to attend church regularly, I even sang in the church choir. However when I came out as Gay I was lead to Wicca and also came out of the Broom closet as a Witch. I didn't fully realize at the time how against homosexuality the church was until a few years had past and realized that I was lead to Wicca at that time for a reason. I started to see more and more how hateful the church was and how loving and accepting the Pagan community was. The church continued to preach Gay is against nature, "God hates F*gs" and such nonsense, which my mother bought into causing us to part ways for good. While Wicca continued to show that Gay is natural and a way for the world to balance itself, for if everyone was Hetero, the world would not be able to support humans for over population. That nature needs to establish balance and homosexuality is key to that balance. So as I grew spiritually I saw the church turn its back more and more, and the nature based Pagan community opened its arms more and more. I am now Proud to say I am a Gay Wiccan Priest, and the Divine Spirits, the Goddess and God created me and Love me as I am. So Mote it be.
Blessed Be!
I used to feel more strongly than I do now about Churches's stances on homosexuality. Oh, it still bothers me and I think they should all change.
But, just as Rupert Everett famously said about himself, I too have now become too old to be gay. Even the gay world doesn't accept me, as I'm just over 50. (Just imagine!) So, why should I fight on behalf of the gay movement?
Growing up in the 70's and 80's with parents who, instead of instilling in me a specific belief in God, chose to not lead me in any way religiously/spiritually so that I could make my own decisions, I have been searching most of my adult life for what it is I believe and what I'm supposed to believe according to the Christian churches I attended. When I became a mother of a son 16 yrs ago, I did not want him growing up with the same feeling of loss and the fear of death as I have. I put him in a private, Christian-based preschool and he remained at that school through 6th grade. I knew in my mind that this particular church/school had very strong feelings against homosexuality. Being a bisexual mom in a relationship with a woman for 8 yrs, I continued to go to church services and send my son to school there because I wanted so badly to have a faith of some kind to follow. My partner being a devout Catholic, was not thrilled that I was going to that Christian church but she was happy that I was at least trying to figure out my beliefs and start some kind of a relationship with God. My son would come home and tell us things that would be said in his classrooms that were completely ethically wrong to be saying to children without their parents' knowledge regarding homosexuality but again, I kept tolerating it by continuing to attend their services and at least trying to get something personal out of their sermons. The last straw came at the end of my son's school year when he asked to be excused because he was upset about something. (Even at such a young age, my son knew when it was "wise" to lie about the real reasons for things when it came to hiding the real status of my relationship with his "aunt".) He was allowed to go to the office and sit with the principal who finally got it out of my son that he was upset because his "aunt" was sick. The principal (and another teacher) began to go into what the Bible says about homosexuality and told my 11-yr old son that if his mom did not change her ways, she is going to Hell. I can't put into words how upset I was. Needless to say, that was his last year there. By the way, that school knows they were wrong to do what they did because that day, I got an email from the teacher offering me $400! (That added insult to injury.) My son and I to this day have our own private battles going on with religion. I blame that church and their "Christian" values on how it has destroyed my son's faith.
Peace!
As a member of a group of disenfranchised Catholics, I read with great interest your coverage of Anne Hathaway's decesion to leave the Church. I know intimatley the struggle of that decision.
As a former Roman Catholic Religious and a delayed vocation (I was an Assistant Professor of mental health sciences for about 12 years before I entered the seminary). I found it necessary for my own mental health and my soul to leave the Roman Church. Deeply convinced of my call to priesthood, I searched for an alternative way to serve God. I found that way in the Independent Catholic movement, especially in the American National Catholic Church (ANCC Americannationalcatholicchurch.org)
The Catholic Apostolic movement began in Brazil under Bishop Charles Duarte-Costa, in response to Rome’s expulsion of him for his out spoken criticism of the Vatican’s policy of granting visas to members of the Nazi party. Since coming to the US in 1949 many Independent Catholics, with the ANCC has joined the struggle to maintain a viable option for Catholics who cannot reconcile the essential teachings of Christ’s all embracing love with the sometimes exclusionary views of the Vatican.
I wanted folks to know that Rome does not speak for all Catholics and You may wish to explore this vibrant expression of Catholicism in the Independent movement. My own parish, St. Francis of Assisi (stfrancisnj.org) is a place where all are encouraged to be who God called them to be.
I am encouraged by signs of the Holy Spirit in the ongoing phenomenon of our differentiation of consciousness described by the noted theologian, Bernard Lonergan. He suggests that whatever is true and authentic doctrine for a faith community, that these elements will always find their expression in each subsequent faith community, despite any type of oppression. I think that ANCC, in someway, is a living expression of God’s promise to not leave us orphans.
While I can understand Dave's frustration with Catholicism I take issue with the misinformation he posted above. Annulments do not say that persons were not married. Annulments say that something was missing in the marriage so that it was not a "Sacrament". Maturity; Intention to Fidelity; Intention to Permanence; Openness to Sexual Love; Psychic Disorder; All these can undermine a marriage so that from the beginning the partners cannot create a marriage "In the Lord. Of course these have to be proven.
The Partners probably did not realize that the marriage was
neutralized by such qualities. Children may have been produced since generation is not subject to human choice only intercourse is.
The fact that some churches have learned from science that homosexual orientation is determined somehow before personal choice has allowed them to change their previous policies about gays and lesbians. That is because truth ultimately lines up with other truth. Darwinian Evolution now can be accorded with Divine Creation of the Universe. Big change.
Perhaps Churches have delayed too long in understanding scientific teaching but science itself changes frequently.
I can see not standing on the ice until the lake is well frozen.
We all have some mental grid(myth) by which we make some sense out of our lives if we take time to ponder. I guess Jesus has that pull on many of us so deeply that even if we are out of step with church authorities we still are drawn to the Gospel. I find it comforting that while I am looking for God
God is looking for me.
I knew I was gay at 7. I figured that since I wasn't going to fit in anyway, I might as well think for myself.
I quickly became disenchanted with my parents faith (Catholicism)and by fourth grade was asking some very pointed questions. As a woman I found it impossible to reconcile any sort of spirituality with the idea that physical anatomy dictated who could serve in the priesthood. My issues didn't end there. I questioned Mary's virginity in religion class and got very tired of hearing over and over that everything that could not possibly be proven was "an article of faith". Childbirth seemed like an awful thing to endure without at least one orgasm preceding it. I later found much more acceptance in the work of Edgar Cayce and studied Buddhism and astrology. At this point I'm pretty sure we were bred by space aliens.
How can it be real when a religious organization runs itself the way the catholic church does. (and all religions are the same) It's based on being a hypocrite. Marriage is between a man and a woman they say so gays can't get married. You can't get divorced but there were too many straight people getting divorced so they had to change the rules for the hypocrites so now they can get divorced and even remarried in the church. Ted Kennedy not only got divorced from Joan but the marriage was annulled. Annulled is when the marriage is not consumated and you decide you don't want to be married anymore. You know what not consumated means? How many kids did he have? He had money so maybe he bought his sins back from god. Believe it or not, that's how they built the vatican, the rules used to be that you could give money to the church to pay for your sins. They had enough sinners to build the vatacan with sin money. Why they stopped that, I don't know? Your supposed to go to church on Sunday but people wanted to go on Saturday so, yea, lets change gods word again so we can make it more convienient for us. There's so many things. It's like people buying a game and saying it's too hard, lets change this rule, I know Dave didn't mean that, I know he didn't. It's all made up. Sorry people. How can someone do that, change the rules because they say they know someone didn't mean what they said. There's god and the devil. If you say god made me do it, your wonderful but if you say the devil made me do it, your crazy. It's all made up to benifit emotional cripples that need magic to carry them because they're too weak to do it by themselves. They could say that gays can now get married but even then it's that they just made up this new rule. Made up. I see gay flags on churches all the time now, letting people know they accept gays there. At one time gays weren't accepted but now they are. They made it up that now they're accepted. Poof. Just like they made it up gays weren't accepted. Why would any gay person or straight person want to be a part of that? It's all made up. Have fun pulling the wool over your own eyes people, I'm not playing anymore.
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